Feral Fox

Some one grab the paddles as we’re heading up #£*! Creek

@Piethagoram I honestly don’t think any of the leaders would genuinely engage the British public in Labour politics at the moment. Again, I’ll use the Sinn Fein example. No infighting. Anyone that even considered stepping out of line and doing some of the stuff various Labour MPs have done over the past four years, immediately removed and disregarded by all. Corbyn was far too nice of a person to deal with the petulant PLP. Tackle the issues that people see as the most important and hammer them home. Offer a solution not just floating cash figure promises. Labour will probably in opposition for a generation now, or until Johnson stuffs up. Opposition parties don’t win elections. Governing parties lose them.

I’m unlikely to vote in the leadership contest, as I said, none of them really stand out. The obvious choice for a leftie is Becky Long Bailey, but I’m still to be convinced. Starmer or Nandy, imo, would have us back to closet Tories in one swipe. Not for me, but others feel differently. you should have become a member. Cheaper to do that for a couple of months and then cancel if you so wish. The registered supporters thing is a money making scam imo. I take solace on a day like today that socialism isn’t finished. Anyone that knows me, realises that Ireland is where the heart lies and today we have witnessed the end of the two party system there. Amazing result for Sinn Fein. All on a socialist manifesto.

Agree with the Brexit comment. Corbyn could never quite square the circle that a lot of Labour members were remain and he was Leave. Not sure about the left wing policies comment though. Some of the points in the manifesto were superb. Others not so much and overall, no clear line of communication for them. Too much in a short space of time. No tag line as in "Get Brexit Done." However disrespectful it may seem, that tag line played to the lowest common denominator and it worked. Labour HQ needs a total overhaul. As does the regional bodies in charge of Labour. The Front bench needs starting again. None of the leaders tick all my boxes and the recent bowing down to the Jewish Board of Deputies has had me at the point of leaving. Sometimes the Labour party is far too nice. And while it's playing its stupid internal games, the electorate are left stranded and worse off when they are the ones we should be defending.

Ashfield totally deserves Lee Anderson as MP. I make no bones about it, I’m a left winger. I also saw close up and personal how Gloria De Piero ran the Ashfield CLP as her personal rebellion against Corbyn. She is to blame for the loss. Let’s remember Anderson was GDPs office manager. Went to the Tories and won. GDPs chief case worker also defected to the Independents around here. She refuses to shoulder any blame for the defeat and even had the gall to control the selection of PPC. Funnily enough..,her best mate was chosen. Regardless of the fact she is bone idle and refuses to do the ground work. In fact the candidates own campaign manager resigned due to the fact Fleet (Candidate) refused to do anything apart from quick selfies a la Gloria. Voters wise, this was a massive Brexit Protest vote. Labour voters voting Tory, as like the rest of the country, will now reap what the sow. Unfortunately.

And if you meant my local result, cheers. I gave it a good crack. As did all the team. Unfortunately we all got slaughtered by the Indys. original answer was due to the fact couldn’t remember the conversation as such. Had so many Blooby Brexit ones in the past few years. Certainly knackered my local result as it was purely a Brexit protest vote. I was on a safe seat until the HoC started kicking it back each time, then boom. My polls went the same way as the rest of the locals! Kinda glad really. Would have been crap being the sole voice for the district!

If you mean Brexit as a result, there is no result. Unfortunately we are where we are... No good me banging on about the fact that my children will not get the same opportunities as me due to the Tories!

Wow. Surprised to see a thread I started a few years back still rumbling on! Glad to see @Piethagoram is still carrying the flame! As I’m a little short of time (and not convinced sorting through 35 pages of comments is a good idea!) where are we with the now semi closed Brexit debate?

I'm not the mans personal secretary! I also (contrary to main stream media) don't think he is the new Messiah. What I do think is, he has totally upended the way the LP works and for me, that can only be a good thing. Mass membership was always the bedrock of the party and it is again now. Thanks to JC!

The players didn’t respond from minute one. So disorganised and disinterested. Absolute shambles. Rubbish from first to last minute. I agree with all the booing, and its not often I'll say that. The fans had every right to show this displeasure. And the clapping at times was funny as it was aimed at the Cheltenham players ironically!

It was a very familiar Paul Hart managerial performance. As a technical coach with the younger players, he has a successful track record. When he’s involved in tactics etc...Oh dear. To be fair though, today wasn’t the manager (even though the question needs asking, what the bloody hell have they been doing all week to look so disorganised and either unfit or just lazy?) but the formation didn’t help. Players should shoulder most of the blame there.

Email just in... Dear HD!!!!!!! The government is falling apart before our eyes. Their half-baked deal has unravelled, the Prime Minister has lost all authority and is clearly incapable of delivering a Brexit deal that commands even the support of her Cabinet - let alone Parliament and the people of our country. Our Party Conference agreed that this deal would be judged against our six tests, and if it failed to meet them we would vote against it. After two years of bungled negotiations, the government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister's own red lines, does not meet our six tests and will leave the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say. As I said in Parliament earlier today, people around the country will be feeling anxious about the industries they work in, the jobs they hold and the stability of this country. We do not accept that the choice is between the government's deal and 'no deal'. We will work across Parliament to stop a 'no deal' outcome. Labour has set out our alternative plan for a sensible Brexit that would work for all of our nations and regions, bring Parliament and the country together, support jobs and our economy and guarantee rights, standards and protections. If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs. If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote. We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few. Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party

@Piethagoram I thought you’d be tagging people like crazy this morning! Deal on the table (well more like in the bin me thinks) and the Tories are doing as I suggested, going into civil war mode. At the time of typing 3 resigned so far and I’d expect more as the day progresses. Labour, quite rightly, saying the deal is pretty crap and will vote against it. Next stop, the civil war moves to the main playing field and they aim for the PM and then we end up back with a new referendum, general election or jumping off the edge of the cliff. Now is the time to hold the nerve and see where it takes us then pounce...

Just got back in from my canvass and quite frankly the shoreline seems to show we’ve been hammered? Especially the second half from what Slater is saying.

Campbell and the dodgy deals of New Labour and Nwo-Liberalism is gone and buried thankfully. When Jeremy came to leader then people could quite rightly compare to the Michael Foot situation. Since then we have had another General Election, which, if it had ran for another week, would have returned a Labour Government. Let's be clear on a few facts. At the last GE Jerem Corbyn increased the Labour vote share more than any other leader of the party since 1945. More than Blair etc... What people forget is the power of connecting with the younger generation. I hear from young and old supporters everyday on the doorstep and have heard and batted back all the JC arguments before from the older voter...Used to vote Labour but he's too left wing etc...When you breakdown their argument they usually see they've swallowed newspaper headlines rather than looking at the Manifesto. Brexit wise, Yes, it should have been raised more about breaking the electoral rules, but nothing would come of it. Been there, done that. Moving the country to the understanding that Labour is different now is a big task, but one we take on with realish. When Blair was in power, finding clear blue water between us and the Tories was difficult and thats why he won. The middle. What people need to realise is that things they feel are left wing, aren't left wing to the younger generation. To be blunt.The older generation are struggling to get to polling day or are dying off and millions of disgruntled of politically aware (more so than any other generation before them) are turning eighteen and have a voice. That will be the difference. Of course I would like a 20 point lead at the mo, but for people to leave the middle ground, it takes time and convincing. Stick with an idea and it will work. I remember when JC was elected and I came out for him. My good friend @Fan of Big Tonehad many discussions with me regarding my support and him thinking I'd stepped off the deep end and he wouldn't win a coconut at Goose Fair, never mind a GE. The last GE showed that progress is there and the Manifesto stands up to scrutiny. Right, I'm off to my second canvass of the day! Cheers.

I don’t disagree with the electoral law parts, but it’s not the LP role to impose the law. That’s the job of the electoral commission who are as toothless as Notts at the minute. Pat the end of the day, I don’t disagree that Brexit is divisive and a different role could have been played by Labour, but we are where we are. The Lib Dem’s tried that and got...exactly nothing for it. The chosen path is the one we walk, but I personally don’t think a no deal,will come on the 29th March. It’s in everyone’s interests, especially the EU, to ensure a deal is fundamentally sound and if the Tories can’t get one by then, I suspect a GE will be called and an extension will be agreed to review and even stop the whole damn thing. And your point to @Magic magpie about Ireland is vital. I, along with millions of others, wait to see if the Good Friday Agreement is broken or the DUP walk away.

A couple of things.... They aren’t my political wishes. I campaigned every day the whole of the referendum. Every single day on the doorstep, along with others. And it got ...a 71% Out vote in my area. My wishes for the Tory party...well let’s remove them totally. You misunderstand my point. Labour can not change the narrative at the moment. Politics and especially Brexit is all about the optics to any given crowd. The Tories were chosen to lead us into Brexit and until they crash and burn, Labour can’t be seen to be undermining the whole thing until the time is right, and that isn’t yet. JC isn’t a total committed remainer. In fact probably slightly the opposite, but until the current government crash, either by their own hand or by GE then the whole party has to show respect for the result. The opposite to that is the conversation about not liking the result and trying again. Well we do that fairly regularly in democratic countries. It’s called elections. The point being which ever way one person wants to view it, the next has just as good points from their perspective. We both agree Brexit will tarnish this country for generations. We both would like another bite at the apple, with the hope that the country will come to its senses. The difference is I don’t think we’re far enough down the track yet for people to see the real damage it will cause. But we’re getting there now and soon the balance should tip. It’s no good going for another ref to only win by a small majority or you have the same argument again. People need to see the real consequences of their actions. That or a general election where hopefully people will choose a different tack for Brexit or even a rerun in a different light.

The issue with Campbell is he isn’t relevant any more. His type of politics may have been acceptable then, but fortunately they aren’t now. The country is on a forward path now which doesn’t involve his silly games and policy decisions made by the banks and media moguls. Keir has done a fantastic job. At the moment Labour don’t need to be headlining. The Tories do. Their tearing themselves apart so why get in they way. The probable outcome won’t change regardless of what JC says on Brexit. It wasn’t just half the country that voted in or out it was half the party. The difficulty of going down one path which might lead to an unmovable door is you lose half your support base. Let the Tories continue to stuff each other, the DUP walk away and then the EU extend negotiations for another two years, which by that time the GE will have come and gone and in all likelihood, another referendum with a result which you may find more favourable. Like it or not, they were voted in to get on with this so we have to stick to the will of the people of going ahead. Do I want it? Nope. Not for me or my children, but at the minute, I agree with JC that we let the Tories come back with such a bad deal people will turn to Labour to sort it. And trust me, @Piethagoram Campbell won’t be involved in any more Labour elections. His days are well and truly buried. Odious little man!

If there is one person I know I can confidently ignore, it's the prick that is Alastair Campbell. He encompasses everything that was wrong with Labour during his tenure and never, ever does anything which doesn't benefit him or his right wing mates. This is just another attempt to do exactly. People don't like losing their grip and fortunately Blairites such as him have certainly lost theirs in the past two years. Regarding the Labour Brexit option...I can say so far this week I've read and seen 4 interviews so far by the top team for Labour inc Jeremy C. Keir Starmer is a totally superb choice to deal with this and I shall wait and see where the negotiations take us when the Tories move out of the bloody way. No one sane can say its gone to plan for them and they stand to tear the country apart, leaving generations to face the consequences. No amount of thumping tables by JC will change that. What will is people remembering the comments when the general election comes around...and it will soon imo.

Nothing to do with Fitz. He played fine as could be expected today. Defence was poor, bu the midfield, or lack of, was the issue. Alesso playing in a more centre mid role failed miserably. Tootle was atrocious at rb.

No I won’t be there. Currently unwell. But with regards to the obviously inflammatory comment along with the picture, anyone who sets out a clear position, then let’s their own front team go against that publicly would be wrong. The party have their line and are sticking to it. Trust me, Brexit won’t be solved by memes or forum posts. In fact I can’t see it being solved for years yet.

Firstly, using Tony Robinson as an example of anything nowadays is bad news. He is known for his views and is entitled to them, but fortunately the other 850,000 members and affiliates to the Labour Party disagree with him. Regards the people’s vote...Personally, I have no problem with it. In fact I think it should be supported. Brexit is the worse idea for generations and people deserve a chance to show their distrust with what’s happened since it was announced. I would remain any day of the week, but respect others that feel differently. Problem is the majority to leave was so thin and the idiot in charge didn’t set a mandated limit eg Either side achieve say 65% for a clear decision, we are in such a mess. Easiest way forward is a new general election and replace the negotiating team with a new one with better ideas that are happy to work for the behest of the people rather than themselves.

Overall, we can’t moan too much. We needed to play ugly and hard to win for a while, so can’t really complain when we do just that. Pleased by Enzio and Stead and Fritz looking solid. It seems, for the moment, we have a good formula. The test, which Nolan failed imo, is the ability to change it up when needed because we don’t want to become reliant on the ugly wins. We want to win convincingly. At the moment HK is playing it safe. Hence the Brisley game. By all accounts he wasted the shirt so will Kate HK think more seriously about how we change it up.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/National-Investment-Bank-Plans-Report.pdf Fully costed as expected.